It is currently Wed May 01, 2024 6:00 pm View unanswered posts | View active topics |


Board index » Final Fantasy XIV » Final Fantasy XIV Discussion


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:24 am 
Crumpet
Crumpet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:57 am
Posts: 5363
Location: England
Found this by Yoshi-P on SE forums:

Quote:
Death Penalty Implementation Ideas
This is Producer/Director Yoshida.

Thanks for the large number of comments! I’m sorry for taking so long to respond!
(I prioritized the preparation of the Producer letter and other scheduled tasks. ^^

After reading through all of the comments, I would like to tell you about the current plans for the death penalty.

•The death penalty is important (For the purpose of creating a sense of nervousness regarding battles)
•Thinking of 2 kinds of death penalties
1.Definite occurrence of a ”Temporary status down” effect upon recovery of death (Wears off after a set time OR by paying gil to an NPC)
2.Occurrence of an ”equipment degradation” effect only when using return after death (Recovered by repair)
•Not currently planning on having a loss of SP/XP at this point in time
•Equipment repair cost relief countermeasures will also be made alongside this.

In regards to the status down effect, we feel that it is necessary to prevent the classic MMO “zombie attack” (Attack > Die > Revive > Attack > Die). There are some players that have touched upon status recovery through NPCs in various threads and comments.

However, we are also planning the below changes to raise at the same time

•Introduction of raise tier system (Raise I/Raise II/Raise III *Temporary names)
•Raise I (After being raised, status down effect, no equipment damage)
•Raise II (After being raised, weaker status down effect or a shortened status down time, no equipment damage)
•Raise III (Perfect raise, no status down effect *Recast time and/or high MP cost)

In other words, even if you die you can get a raise and just take the hit of a temporary status down effect.

However, we determined that it would be necessary to make multiple raise tiers that can be acquired at different ranks since raise is acquired at rank 38 and it is not possible to raise at low-mid ranks.

In addition, in exchange for the death penalty we are looking into making the return cost 0. (This is for regular return, not for when use return when you die.)

Of course we plan to add a 10-20 minute recast timer, but by making the return cost 0:

•It eliminates the need to death warp in order to conserve anima
•Equipment damage when dying will only be occur in the instance of a full party wipe with no one available to cast raise
•Will be a fair amount of risk by relieving the labor of equipment repair (revamp of repair recipes)
•By spreading raises over the low-mid ranks the frequency of revivals will increase (=reduction in party wipes/reduction in death penalty frequency through camaraderie.)

Personally, I would like to see a lot more people tossing out raises as they pass by.

In this regard, I feel that the death penalty is something that creates balance and gives rise to the feeling of nervousness. We have already begun cost evaluation and are planning to implement this in the near future.

In any event, my goal is to create a proper sense of nervousness and not make it so harsh that people log out because they are fed up with the penalties imposed upon death. (Fatigue will be dealt with in another thread)

Please discuss the above points and any comments such as the below would be really helpful:

•This penalty is weak!
•This is perfect!
•Do something else!

Thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:44 am 
Honey Muffin
Honey Muffin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:05 pm
Posts: 1459
I really don't understand the drive behind this. I hope to god that they put up official polls and not soley rely on the forum posting population.

If a demographic of players does not feel enough sense of danger and adventure, wouldn't this better be remedied in the form of adding content rather than making the game just inheritantly annoying to play for the entirty of the player base?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:17 am 
Crumpet
Crumpet
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:57 am
Posts: 5363
Location: England
I like the idea of a high cost high recast Raise III spell that allows you to get someone important back on their feet and instantly battle-ready (bypass all weakness and fully healed). Would be great for those ohshit moments where your tank or healer or something dies.

Only sucky thing is that (like FFXI) you'll have people begging for the highest tier raise because they don't want to lose 3 minutes of their life.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:33 am 
Honey Muffin
Honey Muffin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:05 pm
Posts: 1459
That's one of the reasons I don't want either. I don't want to wait for someone's mage friend to trek miles away for 20 minutes to raise them instead of taking a HP and slight penalty as what happened in 11.

Btw, thread's official theme song:



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:32 am 
Spammer, to the max!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:24 am
Posts: 1593
Location: Reflecting...
So they want to see raise tossed out a lot more for players....I hope they up the "raise offer" timer then.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:39 am 
Posts way too much
Posts way too much
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 1:07 am
Posts: 4142
Location: Oregon
I was really good about deciding who should be getting a Raise III and who could live with a Raise II back in the day.

I think we all agreed that the trip to Ishguard's gate was no where near as exciting as the first trip to Jeuno. A large part of that was death penalties. I'd be totally fine with this change, to be honest. We already have some stat reductions in the sense of lowered HP and cooldowns. Zombie zerging NM fights is lame.

I really don't want them to re-introduce SP/EXP loss on deaths. But any penalty they introduce that is not an SP/EXP loss will only seem like a slap on the back of the wrist compared to dying in FFXI.

I would really like to see Reraise introduced, however, if we do switch over to this new system.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:59 am 
Onionhead
Onionhead
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 6:38 pm
Posts: 7560
Location: Houston
making return cost 0 -- i've been saying that should do that since beta

_________________
RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:52 pm 
Star-Spangled Subligar
Star-Spangled Subligar
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 15671
Location: THE DOJO
Whisp wrote:
making return cost 0 -- i've been saying that should do that since beta



I second that.


This is more speculation from the dev team. Im tired of reading what could be coming. Lets focus on whats coming up and stop adding this speculation about what could be coming.

_________________
COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:28 am 
Decent Challenge
Decent Challenge

Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:02 am
Posts: 444
I hope they bring back sp/exp loss just so aurapulsing groups of djiggas is more satisfying

_________________
"It's not enough that I should succeed - others should fail."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:36 am 
CKD's Minimum Fuck up
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:54 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Texas
no penalty at all for death leaves things extremely boring. Maybe the game in general just isnt for me, but this whole idea of it being a peaceful relaxing place where you idle until your brain shuts down isn't what people look for in games, or at least not me. I like challenge, i like penalty when i screw up. I mean hell, NES games gave u a set amount of lives and then bam, gg, start over.

I'm not by any stretch saying your char should be deleted or anything, but penalties for death seem absolutely necessary to me.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:05 am 
Honey Muffin
Honey Muffin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:05 pm
Posts: 1459
There is a penalty for death though....
And it's more or similar to what most mmo's do these days, even WoW which everyone always wants all games to be modled after.

Most the player base coming from 11 have a warped sense though, because of the extreme harsh penalty that was present in that game.
FF11 was a bit hardcore though. It turned away new players and only seemed to fit for people who played it early on and couldn't bare to see their hard work and frustration over the years just given up so they stay. That's not the best business modle to hold.
Really though, I fail to see what making the death penalty more frustrating will really accomplish other that...frustrating people. The two most common complaints I hear is that big battles don't seem risky enough and trekking into high level zones isn't thrillling. Really neither is related to death penalty.

If we are not careful or too many people go down durring NM fight, we wipe, cannot recover, and lose. Post penalty change, if we are not careful or too many people go down durring NM fight....we wipe, cannot recover, and lose... except now everyone has to pay gil or repair their weapon, and this is more fun? Or more challanging?

Really trying to get into a high level zone on an under leveled character is actually more dangerous than it was in 11. The mobs one shot you from far away, you have chance of avoidance. There are no sneak pots or potions and having a buddy escort you ain't going to save you from anything. And unless that person is at least level 39 mage, you're starting your ass back from home point again. Certain zones are so hard, in fact, that no one bothers even trying and then complains there is no where to explore.
I think really what made city to Jueno trek seem better was maybe a sense of nostalgia still left in us. There really wasn't any aggro mobs until you actually got within the jeuno area. You could buy potions to avoid if you had the gil to. The mobs didnt one shot you with a distanced attack yards away, so if you didn't have potions you could try to sneak around which was fun. Mob density was higher. Zones changed and were unique. Music changed and was unique. There were landmarks to look at. You could actually go inside jueno and do right of passage quests. The trip itself was considered a right of passage. You earned something by going there.

Right now Ishgard is nothing, Its not even an official city atm and noreason to go there, other than just to say you saw it. I think really thats the basis of whats boring about it in comparision. Not that you died and had to pay a price for it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:07 am 
CKD's Minimum Fuck up
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 7:54 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Texas
accomplishment feels more like an accomplishment with effort. Good feels so good because bad exists. It kind of counter balances each other. And also, as far as i know there is no death penalty except a free warp which isnt a penalty lol.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:10 am 
Posts way too much
Posts way too much
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 1:07 am
Posts: 4142
Location: Oregon
Well, you are kinda useless for around 3 minutes, which is usually pretty close to the amount of time it takes to run back from the nearest crystal. So there is a penalty, yah. Just not 10% of your SP, like in 11.

And I don't want EXP/SP loss with a death, and maybe it is all nostalgia. haha. Who really knows. I guess the game is still just lacking a ton of stuff in general.

I will agree that more remote locations are far harder to explore in 14 than they were in 11. Of course in 11, the max mob level was within 10 of cap, yes? I think regular mobs didn't go higher than 85. We have rank 85 mobs now, and the cap is only 50. And they're in starter zones. hah

Who knows. :P

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:39 am 
Honey Muffin
Honey Muffin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 8:05 pm
Posts: 1459
Right now the penalty is:
Lowered hp and stats for 3 mins
Gear wear hit
Wait period of 3 mins

Gets worse if you die a second time, you get locked of playing for 3 or 5 mins (forget which) if you die 3 times.

We disregard it as a penalty becuase its not harshly taking away earned sp/exp like in ff11.

Yoshi it suggesting more of the same, and even if one of his ideas were implemented...people probably still won't feel like its a penalty becuase its not harshly taking sp/exp like in ff11.

Everyone says they don't want that, yet its the only thing that seems supporters do secretly want.

Frankly I think the penalty is enough. Ff11 wasn't fun becuase you got screwed. It was fun becuase you were doing fun things in fun places. I don't think anyone ever deleved and said that was great. The event they may have done it on, its likely what they enjoyed.

I just can't help but feel adding a stronger penalty isn't going to suddenly make the game more fun or exciting or make you feel more achieved. Only content can do that. Add stuff to explore, battle, engage in them see if we need to add a stronger death penalty to make it more challanging.


Ps: I'm not biased because I die 50 times in any given situation haha.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:53 pm 
Onionhead
Onionhead
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 6:38 pm
Posts: 7560
Location: Houston
i had the opposite feeling. since exp penalty upon death was so annoying in ff11, i would just not bother doing anything that had even the slightest chance of death. that's why the main reason i wanted to be a white mage was for reraise 3, so i could actually go enjoy the game. in ff14 im not annoyed by death, so i'll actually go do daring/risky things.

_________________
RIP Shiloh - I'll never forget ya


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:18 pm 
Star-Spangled Subligar
Star-Spangled Subligar
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 15671
Location: THE DOJO
I agree with whisp. Im happy with how it works now. The more you die the longer the penatly. Thats how it should be.

_________________
COBRA KAI DOJO NEVER DIES
RIP Shiloh


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:26 am 
Posts way too much
Posts way too much
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:41 pm
Posts: 3187
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
I think it needs implemented so people aren't just recklessly fighting everything. It would add a reason to actually use strategy.

_________________
[In Yarr we trust.]
Yarr wrote:
Ulgokiem sounds like the name of an anal STD. Why anyone even listens to that douche bag is beyond me.

Ponuh wrote:
i love how half of this thread is about racism in america and the other half is pictures of kittens


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:33 pm 
Too Weak
Too Weak
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:03 pm
Posts: 11
I miss the feeling of a need to stay alive from XI, although I hated the exp loss indefinitely. I would like to see less reckless fights and reraise and as well as just having a easy low level raise for those of us who just level conjurer a little ways ... just to help raise people that do die that are soloing or what have you if you pass by them. lol It always leads to more friends and a better community in a small sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:57 pm 
Father of Evil Twin Tarus & 1 Mastermind
Father of Evil Twin Tarus & 1 Mastermind
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:35 am
Posts: 3708
Location: Look out below and above!
I would have to agreed about this death thing that drive me crazy on losing exp in XI. As for new XIV I like this setup better than to lost damn exp and get delevel as well.

_________________
ImageImage PS3 Friend list name: Pantherxx Wii code 1629-0463-4657-0263 (revised 9/28/07) Steam ID - Pantherxx010 62BLU 75PLD Reactived 7/5/10 I dare you Click this!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Penalty Incoming? (Not SP/EXP)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:02 pm 
DL Hughley
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:47 am
Posts: 3129
Location: Far From Home
Never really minded losing exp. I can see how it'd screw with the 14 system though, fatigue and all that.

_________________
Image
Some stories can't be told with words, some legends are meant to die


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

Board index » Final Fantasy XIV » Final Fantasy XIV Discussion


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 94 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group