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 Post subject: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:34 am 
Onionhead
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I talked to Dragon Draconian and he said we Absolutely must do BLM > WHM > rest. Or else we'll lose over and over.

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:41 am 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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It may have changed since the most recent patch, but back when it first came out, I saw many different LS's all posting strats, each one starting with a different class to kill. So I'd take the "absolutely must" statement with a grain of salt.

Our biggest problem from my perspective was situational awareness: keeping track of moogles, avoiding AEs like pomflare, keeping mana up, etc. Several times I saw people just standing around while moogles beat on them.

Everyone should be using /enm on so you can see the aggro bars even when not targeting the moogles. I also strongly recommend playing 3rd person so you can see if something is coming up behind you.

Tonight was doubly awkward, and it was all Murph's fault. Last night we were really getting the hang of it with 3 BRD. Today the 3rd BRD was gone, and Murph brought his WAR. Nothing against him, but its hard to DPS when the moogles bounce around like a bunch of kids on speed. We also had to try and come up with a new strat to make up for our lower DPS. That, plus the shitty mechanics of the fight (I saw 5 flashing red bars after memento mori once) made it tougher on us all.

That being said, Murph did a pretty good job pulling shit off us eventually. But it is pretty hard to compete with my awesome dps. I need to stop being lazy and get ARC leveled so I can use Chameleon

Again though, we never beat this fight before, and most of us haven't been playing for the past two months. The fact that we consistently kill all 7 phase 1, and kill 2-3 phase 2 is a huge improvement over our previous attempts.

While it is pretty depressing to see how close we come, only to fall apart, we've gotten better and better each night. We just need to keep at it, and pretty soon everything will "click" and we'll be showered in grade 5 darkmatter again.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:10 am 
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Corwin wrote:
Our biggest problem from my perspective was situational awareness: keeping track of moogles, avoiding AEs like pomflare, keeping mana up, etc. Several times I saw people just standing around while moogles beat on them.

Yeah, this is why I brought up "/enm on". I kept seeing people just standing there while a Maximoogle King slowly edges towards them at 1 mph.

Incidentally, the animation makes it look like that Pomflare is AoE around the casting moogle and NOT the target. Maybe people can avoid Pomflare by making a point of simply staying away from Pomburner. King on the other hand is being kited around so would be more awkward. Need help confirming this maybe.

Corwin wrote:
Everyone should be using /enm on so you can see the aggro bars even when not targeting the moogles. I also strongly recommend playing 3rd person so you can see if something is coming up behind you.

That, plus the shitty mechanics of the fight (I saw 5 flashing red bars after memento mori once) made it tougher on us all.

For anyone who missed this little tidbit during the fights last night: It seems that dead moogles continue to hold hate. If you were their hate target when they died, you'll probably still be it when they reraise later along with all the hate you built up. I imagine this is why the old die and reraise exploit used to work so well. It's also possible the moogles might be continuing to build hate while they're dead, which is annoying for healers.

Corwin wrote:
While it is pretty depressing to see how close we come, only to fall apart, we've gotten better and better each night. We just need to keep at it, and pretty soon everything will "click" and we'll be showered in grade 5 darkmatter again.

Yep. Don't forget it took us a good 50-60 tries, staying up late every night for a week straight, to finally beat Ifrit, and suddenly the success rate is more like 9 in 10. Stay positive.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:30 am 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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Ketrebu wrote:
Incidentally, the animation makes it look like that Pomflare is AoE around the casting moogle and NOT the target. Maybe people can avoid Pomflare by making a point of simply staying away from Pomburner. King on the other hand is being kited around so would be more awkward. Need help confirming this maybe.


I'm going to say confirmed on this bit. That completely matches what I've seen. The problem becomes knowing where BLM and/or king are, so you know where to run when you see Pomflare being readied.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:02 am 
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I didn't remember much about the fight (only fought a few times when it was released).

I also didn't know about /enm, that's awesome.

I will unlock/complete bard and read more about the fight. We can beat it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:49 am 
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I'm totally down to come help with this! I have wins under my belt and have been dying to do this fight on BRD or MNK since the update. What time do you guys usually start runs? Hit a lala up! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:54 am 
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we seem to start gathering people anytime between like 630 and 8p est

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Last night we got down to 1 moogle and the king. Our biggest problem seems to be: people start dying and we spend more time cleaning up the mess than dealing damage.

We almost timed out of one of the runs (28 minutes) before we finally wiped.
.

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Is that a chest in the middle of Thornmarch?

Why, yes, yes it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:44 pm 
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was anything done differently ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:35 pm 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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Of course, as soon as I go to Vegas...


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:58 am 
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Whisp wrote:
was anything done differently ?


No, our strat hasn't changed at all. People just actually managed to stay the hell away from Pomflare.

It's kind of the same as Ifrit really, once people got the hang of running from cracks, we won. The strategy itself was always sound.

That said, we actually only won with 40 seconds left on the clock.

Now that I know that hate from phase 1 of the battle continues over to phase 2, I also make a much bigger effort to grab as much hate as possible on every moogle as they're fought. I think they're continuing to build hate while dead, because if I continue to spam aoe hate building stuff like Sentinel > 8x Rampart, I can usually get 4-5 moogles to come after me after Memento instead of anybody else.

Unfortuntely, keeping that hate on so many moogles at once is near impossible, eventually they'll break away and start chasing other people. Hopefully by the time that starts to happen a bunch of them are already dead. I generally can't afford to run into the center of the arena to try and grab somebody elses moogle. This usually results in the king following me to the center where he'll proceed to just Pomflare everyone at once. It's also extremely awkward to target particular moogles that are zipping around all over the place while also running around the arena in circles with the camera facing backwards.

As a future suggestion, if there's a melee moogle chasing you, try and run on top of me as I circle the arena: Any flashes I cast on the king should then hit whatever's chasing you and hopefully pull it off.

PS: I also noticed people binding stray melee moogles a lot, which probably also helped a ton.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:06 am 
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Ketrebu wrote:
PS: I also noticed people binding stray melee moogles a lot, which probably also helped a ton.


I bet that was the difference. As soon as the GLA inevitably comes after me as WHM, that's the beginning of the end.

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Whisp wrote:
Ketrebu wrote:
PS: I also noticed people binding stray melee moogles a lot, which probably also helped a ton.


I bet that was the difference. As soon as the GLA inevitably comes after me as WHM, that's the beginning of the end.

We were doing that all along, anytime a moogle was chasing someone, Blm's would bind them so they could get away till hate was pulled off of them. People just avoided the flares, mognesia and the king altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:33 pm 
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Whisp wrote:
was anything done differently ?


Krellis wasn't there


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Nisim wrote:
Whisp wrote:
was anything done differently ?


Krellis wasn't there

Niz, youre my hero hahaha :bow:


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Nisim wrote:
Whisp wrote:
was anything done differently ?


Krellis wasn't there


hahahahahhahaha \:D/

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:46 pm 
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Lol Niz, priceless

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:00 pm 
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Kluya wrote:
Nisim wrote:
Whisp wrote:
was anything done differently ?


Krellis wasn't there


hahahahahhahaha \:D/



Neither were you!


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:36 pm 
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
Youre a Crappy HNM like Roc or something
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Did you keep the usual kill order(blm brd thf whm)?


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:09 am 
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I think we may be using "blm whm brd thf" now?

I dunno, I don't pay much attention to the kill order since I'm too busy running around in circles.

We've been killing GLA before going after King though. Which is contrary to how most people suggest you do it (King before GLA) but we found it easier to get rid of the melee moogle first. I think this is mainly because by the end of the fight I usually have next to no hate on the GLA (so he's just bouncing around) but the King firmly kited.

We killed it another two times last night, even with a few different people. Like Ifrit it seems now we've beaten it it'll just get easier and easier. Need to keep doing it over and over for a week or two changing a person or two each time so that everyone gets a feel for how to beat it without suddenly having 7 out of 8 different people and having a bunch of clueless chickens running around.

So far we've gotten one pair of mog fists (Eromenos) and I think 4 kupo nut things, which we've been giving to Niz. I think simply because Niz got the first one.

EDIT: As an aside. Now that we're winning I may start recording a few fights. Although I don't think it'll make for great watching from my point of view. I'll think about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:14 am 
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Yes im curious as well if the order is now what dragon draconian suggeted in the original post cause i got several "shut up whisp"s and "we're not changing anything"s

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:10 am 
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We killed it once more after Ket went to bed (3 total). Niz has 8 nuts now.

I would consider recording it, but I'm also constantly running in circles with Ket. I don't have anything to do with the kill order.

We had one fight where we nearly wiped, and everybody snapped out of it and won. We are getting better at recovering from sticky situations in the fight.

Like Ket said, just like Ifrit - we will continue to improve now that we've beaten it. We are averaging 20-25 minute kills. There is plenty of room for improvement.

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 Post subject: Re: Mog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Whisp wrote:
Yes im curious as well if the order is now what dragon draconian suggeted in the original post cause i got several "shut up whisp"s and "we're not changing anything"s



Like we said, it doesn't HAVE to be this way. I don't notice much difference between brd or whm as the second mog when the party has enough DD. If your low on DD, whm first would make more sense.


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