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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:06 am 
Onionhead
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2. Pushing the power-on button does absolutely nothing. No noise no sound no indication that the computer has any life.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:08 am 
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3. Removing the power cable from the back of the computer then plugging it back in... worked. It now comes on.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:11 am 
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4. Keep in mind my first graphics card, the good one, died. In this exact same way. Same shutoff, same computer wont turn on, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:25 am 
Onionhead
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5. That cable that looks to be pinned under my graphics card: I think it's fine for a few reasons:

There is a space there that looks like it was designed for cables to pass through

It's not actually touching the card at all

That's where it was with my old card too

I physically can't move it anywhere else. I'd have to use scissors and cut some of the ties just to get that wire to extend on the other side of the graphics card, and even in that scenario it would still be adjacent to the card just on the opposite side of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:30 am 
Onionhead
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6. I'll test my old card later. Going back to bed. I woke up at 4:30 am due to stress over my computer :(
But I know the old card will work fine because a) it never gave me problems and b) the new card worked fine at medium settings. It's only at the high settings that it poops out.

So do you think my power supply is crap? Even Tiger Direct .com said "warning: you will need to buy a new power supply if you are getting this graphics card." It wasn't like an ad or a "you might need this cause it's a common purchase by other customers" type deal. It was a warning. How would I ever know if my power supply is too weak, without purchasing a new one first?

Going back to bed, while my poor baby computer lies on the ground with her guts hanging out.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:35 am 
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Sounds like it's possible the PSU can't handle it, especially if this is what happened to your old similarly-powered graphics card.

If unplugging the PSU from the mains is what gets the computer to turn back on, it was the PSU that caused the shutdown. If the motherboard caused the shutdown, it will usually turn on then turn straight back off a second later, once the motherboard realises it's been turned on but doesn't want to.

I've taken a closer look at the sticker on the side of the PSU (thanks for the photo). It says it gives out 21A on each of the 12v rails. It sounds like 660 GTX requires 24A on the 12volt rails. If the graphics card had two PCI-e connectors, you could spread the load over two rails, and those two 21A rails would be enough power (because they'd combine to 42A). But since it only has one connector, the PSU needs to be able to give out 24A (ideally more) on a single 12V rail.

I think this may be your problem.

Found someone with the exact same card, PSU, and problem, too: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topi ... ng-gaming/

That person "fixed" his problem by under-clocking the graphics card in the end, I wouldn't recommend that because you're selling your graphics card short. But if you're short on cash it's a short-term solution.

Power supplies are at least much cheaper than graphics cards. If you go looking for a PSU, try and find one with more 12v rail amp-age. 24 is apparently what you need, but you'd need to make sure the graphics card got an entire rail to itself. (Don't connect anything else like HDDs to the same cable the GFX card is using)

E.g.: Exact same brand of PSU, but has 25A on the 12V rail, $60: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817190028

E.g.2: Different brand, has 55A on the 12V rail, $70: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817171084

Just examples, you can probably find cheaper. Sounds like this is definitely your problem though.


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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:42 am 
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Thanks for the help. I'll buy one in the morning.

Sorry for panicmode but I use my computer so much I can't afford it to crap out on me, plus I literally can't afford it to crap out. So I think panicmode is ok. But I can sleep easier now.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:50 am 
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Here's a handy power requirement list:

Note: This link tries to print when you load it, for whatever reason. Make sure you click cancel.

http://forum-en.msi.com/faq/article/pri ... hics-cards

Bear in mind that these are minimums. You obviously need a few more watts for the rest of your PC. Nothing as much as the graphics card, in general add something like 100-150 for the rest of the PC. And your 12 volt rail ampage is also drained by hard drives and CD drives, about 1A each, but as long as you use a second rail this is usually OK.

That said, it's always better to over spec than under spec when it comes to PSUs.


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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:56 am 
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Oh, one last thing (new post so you don't miss an edit) -- make sure the new PSU has a 6-pin PCI-e connector on it. Some new PSUs only have an 8-pin connector, that's used on the newer beefier graphics cards, and you'd be stuck unable to plug it in.

Some have "6+2" connectors, which means that the plug can be pulled apart so that it will fit into both. I think that's what your current PSU has looking at the photo.


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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:27 am 
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One last note, just in case you're wondering why the PSU /used/ to be good enough. They say that power supplies lose their efficiency as they get older, reducing the wattage and amps it supplies.

I don't know exactly how much it loses per year, and it's probably different for every PSU, but I know that it happens. I doubt it's much, but they might lose something like 10-20% over 4-5 years. If your requirements are borderline, that can make a difference.

It's possible that your PSU was once borderline enough, but as it got older it slowly dipped below the acceptable level. This is one of the reasons it's better to over-spec your PSU.

As the guy who told you to get a 660 GTX, and the guy who's telling you to get a PSU after it doesn't work, I'm staking my reputation here. If a new beefier 700-800W PSU with 30A or something doesn't fix the problem, I'll pay for it.


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 Post subject: Re: E3 2013 Schedule!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:31 am 
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My fiancée's computer was having the same problem after I out it together. It would come on for any amount of time it felt like and would then shut off. It would come back on for a second or so after shutdown but then lose power again. Sometimes unplugging the power supply and then plugging it back in and turning the computer on would take care of it, but it never stopped.

Initially I thought it was the power supply. The one I ordered should have been enough, but I swapped mine in for a bit and thought that was the issue, but it happened again after an hour or so. I tried swapping the video cards but it wasn't those either.

Eventually, I ran out of stuff to replace so I contacted the motherboard manufacturer about a warranty placement. While it was a huge pain in the ass (and another reason I won't buy asus stuff) that was eventually what solved the problem. I don't know if there's a good way to test that something is shorting on the motherboard, but the burning smell makes me think that is what the problem is. If you look on the motherboard, check to see if there are any transistors that are expanded or have burst.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:37 am 
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I'm going to just act like my motherboard is okay. I don't have a warranty. And it was acting fine until this new graphics card was put in and pushed to the max.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:38 am 
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Ketrebu wrote:
As the guy who told you to get a 660 GTX, and the guy who's telling you to get a PSU after it doesn't work, I'm staking my reputation here. If a new beefier 700-800W PSU with 30A or something doesn't fix the problem, I'll pay for it.


You don't have to do that. You've already helped a bunch. But thanks for the offer :)

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:38 pm 
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what do you think of this one, ket? great reviews and they say it runs an overclocked gtx 670 just fine
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194086

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Some more background about my previous video cards:
Currently: Nvidia Geforce GTX 660
Previous one: Nvidia Geforce GT 620
The one before that which ran FF14 pretty well: ATI Radeon HD 5770
Yes I was way off on that number.
But Radeon HD 5770 - 34A and a 500W PSU minimum
My 21A power supply handled that card for 2 years.

A previous post of mine, below, I was also way off on the 620 video card cost. So I wasn't out much. But their service fees for diagnostics and installation was up near $200. And I wonder, in hindsight, if I just needed a new power supply that could handle my graphics card...
Whisp, Oct 5, 2012 wrote:
My graphics card apparently died about 2 weeks ago. I didn't know what was wrong. The computer wouldn't turn on, so I took it into Best Buy. They said it was the graphics card and replaced it. They put in a NVIDIA GeForce GT620 without getting my approval (I never picked it out). The card cost like $40. I took it home, and now the game runs really slowly and CRASHES a lot more often than before. In crowded areas especially, it just crashes while I walk. I am thinking about taking it back and getting like a $150 card. But the people at Best Buy said based on my processor, I would be wasting my money getting anything better than an NVIDIA GeForce GT620. What do you guys think??? I have about 2 weeks before the receipt becomes invalid (on a side note they never gave me a receipt for the graphics card, but when I called them after I left they said my purchase is in their system).

Here are my computer specs:
Windows 7 home premium 64 bit
AMD Phenom II X4 processor (4 CPUs) 3.4GHz
4096MB RAM
DirectX11
NVIDIA GeForce GT 620
1680x1050 resolution (32bit 60Hz)

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:07 pm 
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- I'm a big fan of modular PSUs. You can simply remove the cables you don't even need, keeps your case nice and tidy.

- The rails are rated at 35A, which ought to be enough, and gives you a bit of extra room.

- Although it doesn't say in the pictures, the PCI-e connectors look like 6+2 pin, so it should fit.

- It has dual 35A rails. This means it should not only run the current 660 GTX fine, but it ought to be able to run a beefier card in future as long as it has multiple PCI-e connectors you can spread over both rails. Also, you won't have to worry about extra stuff in your case like HDDs sharing power with the graphics card.

EDIT: Although this sounds weird: "HeatGuard - Keep PSU fan running for 30-60 seconds after shutdown to dissipate the remaining system heat and prolong system lifetime." - Not a problem but it'd be weird to have the fan on for a minute after the computer is off. Maybe you can disable it.

If you're happy with the price, then I think go for it.

As for how your old graphics card ran ok, could be a few reasons. Firstly, its possible you weren't pushing the card to it's limit. Secondly, they sometimes overinflate the numbers to give people a bit of a safety net when ball parking the PSU they need, this is especially true of the wattage. Thirdly, it's possible those AMD cards handle low power supply differently (I remember older graphics cards would automatically slow down if there wasn't enough power, but it seems these days it just makes your PC turn off instead). And lastly, as mentioned before, it's possible that your PSU was borderline enough to handle it before, but it couldn't any more as it got older.

I remember when you posted about that card, but I don't recall why I didn't tell you back then to change it. Or maybe I did and you didn't want to, I don't remember. Unfortunately, I still wouldn't have figured out about the PSU until you bought the beefier card first.

Out of curiosity I figured I'd check the specs on my own PSU. I wasn't really as clued in back when I bought it, I just knew to get an expensive one because cheap ones were garbage even though the wattage was high enough (this is still true).

Turns out my 850W PSU has 66A on the 12v rail, for a card that requires 38A, that's pretty decent. I couldn't SLI a second one of them in there though.

EDIT2: Will be AFK for a couple hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:41 pm 
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ok thanks for all your help. i'll purchase that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:50 pm 
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That PSU definitely looks suspect, It would be my top priority to replace it. I noticed your current power supply only has 21A on the 12v rails, definitely need to increase that number for your GTX. That PSU you posted would be more than enough for your needs.

On the bright side Whisp you're getting a crash course in computer hardware lol

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Last edited by Soulguy on Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Soulguy wrote:
On the bright side Whisp you're getting a crash course in computer hardware lol

very true haha

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:41 pm 
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ish, i was thinking about replacing my video card, now im having second thoughts. never even thought about the PSU. maybe ill just settle to running on lower settings :/ hope all works out for you whisp.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:18 pm 
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I'm guessing that if you go back to a previous driver version you should be fine. The current ones are really fucking with peoples' cards and causing issues in a lot of games.

Would try these:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win8-win7- ... river.html

Edit: I noticed you already tried this but Windows auto-updated to the newer version. Did you ever uninstall the ones Windows installed and hide the graphics card update so that it wouldn't try to update it again?


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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:12 pm 
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I havent tried earlier drivers. Already bought the power supply so, fingers crossed, i wont have to troubleshoot it anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Do u guys think it would be ok to use this video card while i wait for the new psu? I wont push it to its limit. I prolly will just skip beta.

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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:27 pm 
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If you're gonna continue to use the PC as it is I'd stay away from any games.

Although the computer is turning off as a safety cut out, it's not exactly doing your PC any favors each time it happens. Can be corrupting half saved files, damaging your hard drive from not parking the disk headers, etc.

EDIT: Oh I guess you're not getting the PSU tomorrow? I'm too used to getting everything next day delivery here in the UK, since we're small and everything's so close.


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 Post subject: Re: Video card, help!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:31 pm 
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4-7 business days

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